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Islam vs Christianity

ISGR Discussion Forum: Islam: Islam vs Christianity

Abbas

Wednesday, November 04, 2009 - 11:24 pm
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Ibrahim Greer

Friday, August 16, 2002 - 12:20 pm
Dear I am blessed,

Muhammad(peace be upon him)never discredited God's prophets.Disbelief in Christ(pbuh) and the Gospel is a sin in Islam. The Quran reinforces Jesus Christ's message.

Trinity is paganism which has existed for thousands of years as previously mentioned. It was not taught by Jesus(pbuh).

Paul taught the concept of the Trinity long after Jesus'(pbuh) ascension to heaven.

Rome accepted the Trinity because is was nothing new.

The concept of the Trinity is paganism that all the prophets spoke out against, to include Jesus.
Chrisitan scholars throughout the years still cannot agree on the validity of the Trinity.

God said "Be" and Jesus(pbuh)"was" in the womb of Mary(pbuh). Before Jesus(pbuh),God created Adam(pbuh) saying "Be" and he "was". Using the concept of trinity Adam(pbuh)is the first son of God,yet, you will not worship him.

You worship a pagan concept,not one God.
Jesus(pbuh) is God's creation.

In the Garden of Gesemane Jesus(pbuh) prostrated himself and prayed to his Lord,GOD!
He did not pray to himself for self help!

According to the Christian Bible, Jesus(pbuh),while being crucified
said, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." Jesus(pbuh)was asking his Lord, GOD, to forgive his persecutors. If Jesus(pbuh) is God in the flesh, he could have forgiven them himself on the spot!! Who was Jesus(pbuh) referring to, not himself.

You have been given the message of Islam. Muhammed(pbuh) taught mankind to worship the God of Abraham,nothing more nothing less. What you decide about God's messenger Muhammad(pbuh) is between you and God.

If you accept Islam and God's guidance, you will succeed.

May God lead you to the straight path.

IamBlessed

Saturday, July 27, 2002 - 08:18 pm
Dear Bro. Greer,
One does not "inherit" a religion by birth, as you do your race or ethnicity. God gave us free will to choose, that is why there are so many religions today. He allows us to go down the wrong path as long as we wish, and waits for us to realize faith through Christ. If you never accepted Christ as Savior, you were never a true Christian (therefore, no reason to "revert" to Islam) The same is true, is it not, of your religion? Do you not have your sacred oath and pillars of faith that you must adhere too? This would appear to take some conscious decision on your part.

You are correct that God is One...1x1x1=1
Father/Son/Holy Spirit are one in God.
Jesus was God in the Flesh, not merely a prophet. You agree that you believe He was a prophet, yet do not believe what He says about Who He Is. I find this very puzzling. You also believe in the Virgin Birth..what other prophet was born of a virgin? If it were not the Son of God, why was He chosen above all the prophets, even Muhammad, to be born of a Virgin if not for the sole (soul) purpose of being the ultimate sacrifice for a sinful world?

Clearly, Muhammad was only a prophet, yet your beliefs are based on his faith through fear philosophies, and his discrediting Jesus as the true Messiah. Jesus'power in my life, personally, is something that no one can discredit!

The God I worship is a loving God, who gave His Son so that we have the assurance of Heaven with Him ...do you have any assurance of Heaven in Islam (other than martyrdom?)

Without knowing Christ, you will never see Heaven, therefore I pray for your soul that the One True God will touch you in a mighty way, as He has me.

Peace be Upon You

Ibrahim Greer

Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 10:00 pm
In the Name of God,the Beneficient,the Merciful

Dear I am Blessed,

I was a Christian for the first thirty two years of my life.I lost nothing and gained everything by REVERTING to the religion of Adam,Moses,Abraham,Jesus and Muhammad(God's Peace upon them). This religion is Islam, meaning submission to the Lord your God. When you were born,you were in a state of Islam.

Trinity is a pagan concept and as long as you practice Christianity you will be following paganism.

The info I have presented in our previous discussion is in libraries,the internet, and probably to found in your own bookshelf at home. Again my dear Brother, God is calling you to the true path to paradise.

Adam,Abraham,Moses,Soloman,David,Jesus and Muhammad and countless others throughout time came with the same universal message that there is only one God,and take no other gods(nor associate others)with/beside HIM.

Throughout the Bible We are told,our God is ONE.
NOT THREE.

May God Lead You,

Respectfully, Brother Ibrahim

IamBlessed

Wednesday, June 26, 2002 - 05:47 pm
Mr Greer: I am most grateful for your response to my post. Admittedly, you have raised some “points”, of which I have had the greatest pleasure in responding to. I have wonderful personal evidences of how God has worked in my life and I would not change one thing about my being a Christian. My "baggage" was left at the foot of the Cross in 1999 when I asked God into my heart and life. Our dialogue and my research to respond has also deepened my beliefs, which I believe to be God's work as well. I am wondering how long you were a Christian?

(My response is rather lengthy, but I hope that you may read something that you had not previously considered about Jesus, and who He is. ) Maybe you even have a copy of the Bible that you can reference? I am praying for you.

Your comments are in quotes at the top of the lines not necessarily in the order presented:
*********************************************
“……in his earthly existance he never called himself God. “

“He who has seen Me has seen the Father….” (John 14:9)

Did Jesus refer to himself as God? Let us read what Jesus said, and how the Jew responded.

But He (Jesus) answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.
(John 5:17-18)

And He was saying to them, "You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. (John 8:23)

(and the Jews said to Him) “Are you greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Who do You make Yourself out to be?”

Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I Am." Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but
Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple. (John 8:53,58-59)

Now the chief priests and all the council sought testimony against Jesus to put Him to death, but found none. For many bore false witness against Him, but their testimonies did not agree. And the high priest stood up in the midst and asked Jesus, saying, “Do you answer nothing? What is it these men testify against You?”
But He kept silent and did not answer. Again the high priest was questioning Him, and saying to Him, "Are You the Christ, the Son of
the Blessed One?". And Jesus said, "I am; and you shall see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN." (Mark 14:55--62)

Then they said, "What further need do we have of testimony? For we have heard it ourselves from His own mouth." (Luke 22:71)

Jesus refers to himself some 85 times as "The Son of man." The origin of this title is Daniel 7:13, "I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him." This is in the context of Daniel's apocalyptic vision.

The Son of man descends from "heaven." Satan, as the serpent, is the representative head of all that is bestial; man, by following the serpent, has become bestial. God must, therefore, become man, so that man may cease to be beast-like. Whoever rejects the incarnate God will be judged by the Son of man just because He is the
Son of man (Joh_5:27).
This title is always associated with His coming again, because the kingdom that then awaits Him, belongs to Him as the Savior of man, the Restorer of the lost inheritance.

The kingdom then was given to Him in title and invisible exercise; at His second coming it shall be in visible administration. He will vindicate it from the misrule of those who received it to
hold for and under God, but who ignored His supremacy. The Father will assert His right by the Son, the heir, who will hold it for Him.

The divinity of Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah or Christ beginning with
Genesis 3, there are repeated announcements that God would provide atonement for sin. Genesis 3:15 is a clear statement of the supernatural, sinless, virgin birth of Jesus. God promises
Abraham that he will bless the whole world through his offspring (Genesis 12:3.) Isaiah 53 is a great declaration of God's purposes
for Jesus. He will be, "the lamb that takes away the sin of the world."

********************************************
“…the trinity is consistant with Roman pagan beliefs.”

The Holy Bible does not state the word, "Trinity." This doctrine comes from the observation of the work of God. The Trinity is seen in the creation of the universe. The Trinity is seen at work in the life of Abraham. The Trinity is seen at Jesus baptism. Jesus himself
refers to the Trinity (John 14:9-16.) The Apostles believed in the triune nature of God (Acts 2:33, 15:28, 19:2, etc.) From the activity
of God we see that He is one in essence, three in person.

The propositions involved in the doctrine are these:
1. That God is one, and that there is but one God (Deu_6:4; 1Ki_8:60; Isa_44:6;
Mar_12:29, Mar_12:32; Joh_10:30).
2. That the Father is divine, distinct from the Son and the Holy Spirit.
3. That Jesus Christ was truly God, and yet was a Person distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit.
4. That the Holy Spirit is also a distinct divine Person.
*******************************************
“There are many versions of the Gospel that were ordered to be burned by the Council of Niacea.”
“ It is believed these omitted Books of the Gospel were eyewitness accounts;again this is from The Scholars.”

Scholars have developed the doctrine suggesting that these past revelations (in the Old and New Testaments of the Bible) have become corrupt and that (alternative teachings) were given to correct these mistakes.

This begs the question, "Is God omnipotent or not?" If you believe that God is all powerful, do you not also believe that he is capable of preserving His Truth?
Christians believe that God is omnipotent. That He did reveal his message through prophets. And, He is able to preserve His message to us, and maintain it without error or corruption. Archeology substantiates this belief. No other ancient manuscripts have so many copies written
so close in time to the originals. And, these copies show us that God has indeed preserved his message in the Torah and the Gospels.
******************************************
“What about sacred writings by the apostles?”

The Gospels are substantiated by those who knew the authors as having indeed been written by whom they claim to be. The fact that there were writings that were not accepted in the canon of scripture shows that they were examined for their message. Were they inspired? Were they written by Apostles? Were they in agreement with the teachings of Jesus and His Apostles? These questions were asked of these books because people were being persecuted and killed because of their belief in them. Church members who were facing this threat wanted to make sure that what they were willing to die for was indeed revelation from God.


Orthodox Christianity stands firm on the essentials.
I. The Scriptures
The Holy Bible was written by men divinely inspired and is God's
revelation of Himself to man. It is a perfect treasure of divine
instruction. It has God for its author, salvation for its end, and
truth, without any mixture of error, for its matter.
II. God
There is one and only one living and true God. …The eternal God
reveals Himself to us as Father, Son and Holy Spirit, with distinct
personal attributes, but without division of nature, essence, or
being.

A. God the Father
God as Father reigns with providential care over His universe, His
creatures, and the flow of the stream of human history according to
the purposes of His grace. …God is Father in truth to those who
become children of God through faith in Jesus Christ.

B. God the Son
Christ is the eternal Son of God. In His incarnation as Jesus Christ,
He was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary.
…He
honored the divine law by His personal obedience, and in His death on
the cross, He made provision for the redemption of men from sin.
C. God the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. …He exalts Christ. He
convicts of sin, of righteousness and of judgment. …He enlightens and
empowers the believer and the church in worship, evangelism, and service.

III. Man
Man was created by the special act of God, in His own image, and is
the crowning work of His creation. …By his free choice man sinned
against God and brought sin into the human race. … The sacredness
of human personality is evident in that God created man in His own
image, and in that Christ died for man; therefore every man possesses
dignity and is worthy of respect and Christian love.

IV. Salvation
Salvation involves the redemption of the whole man, and is offered freely to all who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, who by His
own blood obtained eternal redemption for the believer. In its broadest sense salvation includes regeneration, sanctification, and
glorification.

Ibrahim Greer

Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 11:39 pm
In the Name of God,the Beneficent,the Merciful

Dear I am Blessed,
It is clear that you are sincere in your faith, and wish to serve God.I also appreciate you sharing your belief with Muslims. As Muslims we believe in Jesus(God's Peace be Upon Him)and the gospel. Jesus is mentioned many times in the Quran,and we have a chapter in the Quran called Mary that tells the story of his creation and his mission.

I once followed the Christian faith. I was devout in my belief in the concept of the Trinity,and that Jesus(God's peace be upon him)was indeed God in the flesh. I always believed I was worshiping the God of Abraham(Peace be Upon Him), but I was worshipping a man called Jesus(pbuh).Jesus preached mercy and forgivness, and piety, and devotion to our creator.When he prayed in the Garden he prostrated himself to God,when he greeted someone he said "peace be upon you." Like all the prophets before him he was humble and pious.Most importantly,in his earthly existance he never called himself God.

The concept of the Trinity has existed throughout history. Ancient Egypt,Greece and Rome to name a few, had religions that incorporated the concept of the Trinity. Have you read Virgil's Aenaed, a story of how Rome was founded? Skip to the part of the story where Aenaes dies and descends into the underworld and then is brought back to life and appears before his soldiers who were busy mourning his death. I know you will find it is the same story introduced by Paul,to early Christians. And, I must say this is only one example. So, why did Rome embrace Christianity?
Simple, it was nothing new. All major Chrisitian Holidays were and are still celebrated on the orginal Roman pagan holidays,and the trinity is consistant with Roman pagan beliefs.

What about sacred writings by the apostles? Unfortunately, Matthew,Mark,Luke and John were not actual eyewitnesses to the events they wrote about.This comes from the Christian Scholars,not me. There are many versions of the Gospel that were ordered to be burned by the Council of Niacea. Possession of The Gospel According to Mary,and The Gospel According to Barnabas,etc. were capital offenses(death penalty). These Books of the Gospel that were ordered burned reflect Jesus(pbuh)preaching that God is one, and we should submit to his guidance and mercy. The writers, never mention the concept of the Trinity. It is believed these omitted Books of the Gospel were eyewitness accounts;again this is from The Scholars.

How did the pagan tribes of Europe come to embrace Christianity? Same process. The Church of Rome allowed pagan rituals to be included Christian festivities.The decorating of Christmas Trees and hanging evergreen boughs is a Pagan Germanic Ritual. And, the tale continues even today with new improvisations to fit the whims of the masses. So,What happened to worshiping the God of Adam,Abraham,Ishmael,Isaac,Moses,Soloman,David,
Jesus and Muhammad(God's Peace be upon them)?

I have presented a few points that cause many Christians around the world to embrace Islam, so that they may become Muslim(meaning one who submits to God's will). To submit to one's creator is the only success in this life and the hereafter. The only difference between YOU and ME NOW, is that I have been able to leave behind all the baggage that centuries of lies and deceit have put upon my mind and soul. Jesus(pbuh) was God's messenger,he preached the Gospel, and Muslims believe in his second coming. We submit to God's mercy and ask for his forgivness,we worship none but him. All God's prophets taught the oneness of God.We recognize all of God's prophets are special,including Jesus(pbuh),but like Abraham,we can only worship our creator.

Since your sincere desire is clearly to worship and please God, I invite you to Islam.

IamBlessed

Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 11:22 am
I am a believer in Jesus Christ, the Savior and Messiah, and know Him to be the True Son Of God. I have peace in my heart of my salvation through FAITH in Him and His sacrifice for me (and a sinful world) on the cross; which was foretold in God's inherent Word of the Bible. I can have peace knowing that He conquered evil and Hell for me and that I will not face it, but will live in eternity in Heaven with Him.

It is through faith that good works come, and I am glad that God does not keep a "tally" in order to calculate them to see whether or not I "deserve" a spot in Heaven. WE ALL DESERVE HELL DUE TO OUR SINFUL NATURE (just like the scorpion and toad parable in an earlier post)

We cannot have eternal life in Heaven without God's forgiveness. "In Him (meaning Jesus) we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins"-Ephesians 1:7a, NKJV

"For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, that whomever believes in Him shall never perish, but have everlasting life" John 3:16

I worship God, and believe that he is the one True God and Creator of the World. Since He cannot look on our sin, Jesus is our intercessor and takes our sin away if we are faithful to confess it to Him and repent (turn away) from this sin. God loves us and doesn't want to destroy us. If He wanted us dead, it would be so. Instead, he created an intercessor in Jesus, who by the way is a LIVING SACRIFICE, NOT DEAD IN A GRAVE OR TOMB.

How sad it is that so many are being misled, but this is also foretold in THE BIBLE. As a child of God, I have a life covenant to pray for those who are being misled and even those who do not believe and persecute Christians.. I know that Satan's book of lies appeals to many who are looking for an easy belief system...deception is hard to discern until you are trapped.

In THE END I guess you will find out "where" you will spend eternity...as for me, I will accept my inheritance when I look into Jesus' face in Heaven. "...I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also"-John 14:3

Definitions:

The False Prophet-a religious leader of the end times who, along with the DRAGON (the devil/satan) and the BEAST (the Antichrist), forms an unholy trinity in opposition to God (Rev 13:1-10). The Antichrist will be a political ruler,a false prophet and a religious leader inspired by Satan who deceives the world into worshiping the Antichrist--but, they will be overthrown by Christ Jesus and cast into the lake of fire (Rev 19:20)