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ISGR Discussion Forum: Islam: New Convert

Ibrahim Greer

Friday, December 21, 2001 - 08:14 am
Dear Mr. Timmons,
I appreciate your opinions.Yet,I respectfully disagree with your argument.It is contrary to the historical facts of Islam. We could certaintly talk at great length about peace loving Christians,spreading the Gospel throughout the world without force. How the peoples of the west are so peace loving and tolerant. That is why we see the greatest European powers dominating and exploiting weaker, poorer countries of Africa and Asia throughout the 17th,18th,19th and 20th centuries. All out Socio-Economic domination of the so called third world has been the agenda of the west for centuries. Of course religion was thrown into the mix to help justify injustice. PEACE with the west could only be found in total submission to western demands.You seem to be well read in history, so I am sure the history of European Colonialism in the Americas,Africa, and Asia will support my argument without me boring you with all the grim details.

In Islam,non muslims were always protected by the Muslim state.During the Christian Inquistion, Jews fled Christian Spain to only find refuge in North African countries controlled and dominated by Muslims. One of the largest Jewish communities in the Middle East today is not Israel,but Morrocco. Their are many similar examples. Keep in mind,where we see atrocities or oppression committed by the hands of Muslims or anyone; THIS IS A GRAVE SIN AND OFFENSIVE IN THE EYES OF GOD.

Many good Christians served in the German military in WW2 and were involved in running the death camps. Many good Christians served in the IRA(Irish Republican Army) and committed crimes of terrorism.Many good Christians served in the Spanish armies that murdered thousands of American Indians of North,Central and South America. Many Christians commit murder,fornication,abuse alcohol and narcotics everyday. It must follow that Christianity, the dominant religion of the west, is one of extreme brutality and immorality. This is, of course,not the case.

Christians,Jews,Muslims,etc. must be sincere in their submission to God. Oppressive behavior from any religous group is a sign of disbelief in God and his commandments. So, we have witnessed oppressive behavior from a variety of people throughout history waiving the banner of a certain religious or nationalistic causes, attempting to rally the ignorant behind their nefarious causes.In Islam,conquest is not acceptable for worldy gain.Military expeditions must be carried out for self preservation of the Islamic state only,whether defensive or preemptive strikes.Unfortunately not everyone plays by the rules.

Most importantly, Islam is spreading in the United States at an incredible rate. Soon, Muslims will outnumber Jews. The American democratic process, rights to free speech and dissent, right to bear arms, rights against illegal search and seizure, concept of writ of habeus corpus,etc are all fundemental parts of Islamic teachings and jurisprudence.Islam is alive and well in America due to the very Islamic nature of our entire system. SO,WHY TERRORISM?

Muslim lands throughout the world have been governed by despots,dictators,tyrants,etc. for some time. Their power was created by the western financial aid and military aid. In the process,the normal blue collar, working class Muslim can not get proper nutrition, medical aid, potable water,educaion,etc. If the good citizens of these countries speak out they normally end up in prison or dead.I challenge you to seek the truth beind the so called friends of the United States. For example, Israel,Saudi Arabia,Jordan,Egypt,Morrocco. Also, who created the Taliban? Who created Osama bin Laden? Who created Saddam Hussein? Name the personality and chances are good we(United States) set them up to do whatever naughty thing they suppossedly have done. The citizens of these countries are really fed up with their bad situations that have been aided by western political, economic and military hegemony. Easy for you and I to sit back and debate this topic with full stomachs,decent health,warm clothes and a refrigerator full of food to last the winter. Our fellow human beings are being deprived of their basic human rights.Seeking justice they at times turn to terrorism;NEVER JUSTIFIED BUT EFFECTIVE. They are being deprived the freedoms we so cherish in the U.S.,ironically our tax dollars are helping to keep these oppressed people in chains.

By the way, how many truly Semitic(Arab)Jews, and Christians have been killed in Israel for speaking out against the brutal policies of the Israeli government? Who controls the Israeli governent purse?Hint, U.S. Govt.Who is the dominant ethnic group within the Israeli government? Hint,Most of them are Eastern Europeans not Arab.Why is there a schism between semitic Jews and European Jews in Israel?Why is Israel so important to the U.S. government? Why risk alienating millions of Muslims?Why do human rights violations matter in Afghanistan but not in Palestine? Oh, about the oil. I did not know the natural resources in the Middle East were community property.You have implied that somehow manipulating the supply of oil is a slap in the face to the rest of the world.Seek the truth brother.Look at any other commodity or manufactured good.Prices are manipulated by holding back production of grain, or manufacturing a small amount of life saving medicine in order to artificially inflate prices and thus improving profit margins.All this done by the West to gain profit, despite the toll on humans around the world.Who is being held hostage by the new sword of conquest and dominion in this case. That is correct, everyone.

Oppression is alive and well in the world not because of Islam, but in spite of it.God told mankind that Islam is destined to be the religion of this world before Jesus returns.You and I are
are witnesses to this very thing.Islam is the fastest growing religion because oppression is the antithesis to Islam. Peace and justice is a must to all who embrace Islam sincerely.The tyrants of this world who carry Muslim names and oppress their fellow man will be held accountable before God Almighty on that day of judgement that is fast approaching.

Know Mr.Timmons that your Lord is One.There is no one comparable to God Almighty, He is without equal.Muhammad his messenger confirmed the teachings of all the prophets before him.Worship the God of Adam,Abraham,Moses, Jesus,and Muhammad.Jesus prostrated in prayer,who does this today? Muslims. Jesus said "peace be upon you." Who says that today? Muslims.Embrace Islam and come to know the truth. Please know,Muhammad's message is a conquest of the heart and soul.
You may read many books and articles from scholars,foreign policy analyst or historans,but only your personal search and study of Islam will reveal its'true nature. I know,I was once Christian.

Timmons

Friday, November 16, 2001 - 04:00 pm
Islam A Religion of Peace? -Think Again!
by Tim Timmons

Although there has been a great propaganda flow that pushes the theme that Islam is a religion of peace, this message must be examined more closely before buying into it.

In the latest U.S. News & World Report (October 29, 2001) entitled "Muslim in America," Jeffrey L. Sheler sums up Islam well when he speaks of the rules: "Indeed, Islam embraces the monotheism of Christianity and Judaism, accepts the Hebrew Bible, and venerates Jesus as a prophet."

"What divides American Muslims most often is not liberal-versus-conservative ideology, but how best to domesticate Islam in a Western society without doing violence to either. What, for example, are American Muslims to do with sharia, the Islamic legal and ethical codes that tradition says should undergird Islamic society? Radical clerics say it is a Muslim's duty to impose sharia throughout the world, by force if necessary. But moderates argue that Islamic law must be internalized."

Even though Sheler has gleaned most of his material from identified front-groups in America that raise funds and spread propaganda for the terrorists (CAIR, ISNA, etc.), the Muslim community has proven to be more peaceful and accepting of differences between faith and culture in America than in the rest of the world. These front groups enjoy a highly visible Washington presence, working to rally Muslim political activism and acting as media watchdogs.

There is a peaceful facade and message of peace among the leadership, but there is an underlying agenda that betrays a spirit of conquest and domination that is most disturbing. After all is said and done, there is more SAID than DONE toward a genuine mission of peace in this world within the religion of Islam.

Just a quick overview of what is TAUGHT and DONE demonstrates clearly the true nature of the spirit of Islam:

· WARS ALL OVER THE PLANET. With the exception of the Protestant-Catholic scene in Ireland and a few tribal conflicts you will be hard pressed to find a conflict or war or uprising in the entire world that is without Moslem roots. The spirit of CONQUEST, and NOT the spirit of PEACE, is the fundamental principle of Islam throughout the world.

· MOHAMMED'S EXAMPLE AND TEACHINGS. Islam is founded on four sources: the Qur'an (eternal and inspired Word of Allah received by Mohammed), the Hadith (canonical traditions that are the key to interpreting the Qur'an), ijma' (community consensus), and qiyas (analogy). Of these four sources the first two are most important. These two-the Qur'an and the Hadith-form the foundation for Islam's holy law known as shari'ah. Muslims believe this combination form the most perfect expression of God's will for them to follow.

Ernest Hahn, in his book entitled, 'Muslims', makes it clear that "Islam without Islamic law is no longer Islam. It is Islamic law that brings order out of chaos. That is why political sovereignty must be in Islamic hands. ...Today many Muslims are frustrated with the present status of the Muslim community. They press for community and country renewal through the imposition of the shari'ah (Islamic law in the world), and, if necessary, for revolution. Meanwhile, they continue to promote the spread of Islam throughout the world." And this promotional spread of Islam is primarily through the spirit of conquest and overthrow, not peace.

Mohammed's example of leading his people into 27 conquests during his life paves the way for the endless pursuit of jihad. Jihad is an ongoing war being fought for CONVERSION and DOMINATION. ALL true and knowledgeable Muslims believe in it and pursue it to some extent. Maybe this is why it's so difficult to elicit a clear repudiation out of the Muslim clerics regarding the terrorism that has struck America.

· MESSAGE OF 'PEACE' IS A TOOL FOR CONQUEST. A little known teaching in Islam is to USE the TALK or commitment OF PEACE in order TO GET you CLOSER TO CONQUEST. If you can't convert, dominate or conquer the infidels, then make peace with them until you are able to overtake them.

· ONLY 3 OPTIONS FOR PEACE WITH ISLAM. According to Islamic law non-Muslims don't belong to the House of Islam (Dar al-Islam), therefore they belong to the House of War (Dar al-Harb). Under the Islam legal system there are only three ways for Muslims to deal with non-Muslims. Each of these ways produces some form of peace.

First, peace through conversion. Non-Muslims must be converted and if converted, there is a sense of peace.

Second, peace through submission. Non-Muslims must be brought into submission or subjugated under Islam. This, too, will bring a certain level of peace.

Third, peace through death. Non-Muslims must be eliminated (except for women, children and slaves). In this case there is a sense of perfect peace. You're dead!

There is only one exception to the three approaches to non-Muslims.

It's called a "dhimmi." According to Islamic law a dhimmi is when a Muslim state allows the 'infidel' to enter a formal agreement or treaty that spares the non-Muslim's life and property, as long as the non-Muslim is under some form of subjugation to Islam. Maybe this dhimmi mentality underlies the Muslim states' view of the West.

While Western countries see petroleum issues in economic and political terms, the Islamic mind is thinking dhimmi. They know that they can demonstrate their superiority at any time by humiliating and subjugating the West through manipulating our oil supplies. It's the new sword of conquest and dominion of Islam.

There is an old fable that is popular among the Afghans about the frog and the scorpion: The scorpion asks the frog to carry him across the lake on his back. The frog protests, "Are you serious? About the time we got half way across the lake you would sting me and we'd die!" "Why would I do that? That would kill me, too! Please help me get to the other side? Let me ride on your back...I won't hurt you!" the scorpion pleaded.

The frog finally consented and as they made their way across the lake, the scorpion stung the frog and they began to sink. "Why did you do that? Now, we're both going to die! Why?" gasped the frog. The scorpion simply said, "It's my nature!"

Make no mistake about it. The NATURE of the Islam religion is filled with a spirit of VIOLENCE and WORLDWIDE DOMINATION. There are many loving and peaceful Muslim people in the world, but peace and love are ONLY ON CERTAIN TERMS within the religion itself.

Do you think Islam is a religion of peace? Think again!

Karan Parker

Friday, August 10, 2001 - 11:27 am
Thank you very much. I will be moving to the Richmond area and will definetly viist ISGR.

Tariq Jangda

Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 07:24 am
Welcome back to Islam. You can visit ISGR and get other literature and information. Most Mosque requires visitors to cover their head with a hat, scarf etc. If you don't have something to cover your head, we can give you "hijab" a special Islamic head covering.

You are welcome to visit us during Friday's main Prayer Service or Study Group (Halaka) at 8:30 PM. Sisters usually attends the Halaka on Sundays at 3:00 PM.

Call us at (804) 673-4177 or info@isgr.org.

Karan Parker

Tuesday, August 07, 2001 - 07:51 pm
While visiting my family for the first time in Dubai, I conerted to Islam on the last day of my visit. I would like some information on how to proceed (I know that sounds vague). My mother gave me some literature, but I would like to learn more. Should I just show up for classes on Fridays? I do not cover my head typically, but when visiting the mosque ther it was required. Is that the norm here?